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A conversation about godlessness killing more people than guns

2015 August 27

i'm the problem, apparently

This meme appeared on a friend’s wall on facebook. Discussion follows:

qkslvrwolf You remember the term force multiplier? Also, this is doubly stupid. The most godless societies on the planet have the lowest murder rates. There is literally not one part of this that isn’t stupid.
Like · Reply · Yesterday at 7:43am
Friend It rang true to me. You can substitute something else for “Godless” and it may make more sense to you Sean. The main point is that people with the intent to kill someone will find a way. And guns aren’t the problem. They don’t shoot themselves.
Like · Reply · 14 hrs
qkslvrwolf replied · 2 Replies · 10 hrs
qkslvrwolf As for “people with the intent to kill someone will find a way”, you realize that guns kill as many people as cars, but A) 95% of the country owns car (http://photos.state.gov/…/everyone_in_america_own_a_car…), but only 32% own guns (…See More
Like · Reply · 10 hrs
qkslvrwolf (you see what I’m doing here, by the way? I’m actually finding out what happens in the real world, rather than just imagining what I want to be true)
Like · Reply · 10 hrs
qkslvrwolf “That’s where the truth lies, right down here in the gut. Do you know you have more nerve endings in your gut than you have in your head? You can look it up. I know some of you are going to say “I did look it up, and that’s not true.” That’s ’cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut. I did. My gut tells me that’s how our nervous system works.” – Stephen Colbert
Like · Reply · 10 hrs
Friend I didn’t make the poster, so I can’t speak for the originator, by my take was that mass murder (not just mass murder, but specifically) is evil. I would also assert that mass murders are less common than either gun violence or car accidents.
Like · Reply · 10 hrs
qkslvrwolf replied · 3 Replies · 9 hrs
qkslvrwolf Please tell me how this would’ve happened without the semi-auto handgun, which is purpose built for killing people: http://www.cbsnews.com/…/virginia-police-shooting-live…/
Virginia television station WDBJ employees killed in shooting during live…
CBSNEWS.COM
Like · Reply · Remove Preview · 8 hrs
Robert Rodriguez http://www.commdiginews.com/…/rebuttals-to-anti-gun…/
Rebuttals to anti-gun rhetoric: Debunking the most common seven lies
COMMDIGINEWS.COM|BY ERIC GOLUB
Like · Reply · 8 hrs
Hide 38 Replies
qkslvrwolf Since I had the first citations up, maybe you could address those and prove you read them, rather than asking me to do all the reading?
Like · 7 hrs
Robert Rodriguez I have read them brother. All of them.
Like · 6 hrs
Robert Rodriguez The rebuttal is my proof that I’ve read your citations.
Like · 6 hrs
qkslvrwolf Dropping a random link isn’t proof, in this case, since you’re not actually saying anything.
Like · 6 hrs
Robert Rodriguez It’s not random. It addresses all of your prior citations. It is completely valid in your debate. It holds relevance on the subject matter. The only reason I’d rather not use my own words is because I’m using your same tactics and maybe I am in agreement with the writers eloquence.
Like · 6 hrs
qkslvrwolf No, if you were using my tactics you would make an argument and support it with citations to data, not just drop an opinion piece by some random schlub named golub.
Like · 5 hrs
Robert Rodriguez Yes. I’ve made my debate. I’ve rebutted your argument and all your links which you call citations and data that are erroneous. Now your making inappropriate comments using name calling at people you do not know (schlub). Now that’s very mature. Go back and read the last couple paragraphs of the article. Then reply.
Like · 1 hr
Robert Rodriguez Go ask your grandparents and parents how they feel about giving the government control of your right to bear arms and defend yourself and family.
Like · 1 hr
Robert Rodriguez Why don’t you ask this mother how she feels about gun control. http://abcnews.go.com/…/okla-woman-shoots…/story…
Teen Mom Kills Intruder After 911 Call
ABCNEWS.GO.COM|BY ABC NEWS
Like · 1 · 1 hr
Robert Rodriguez “The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to …See More
Like · 1 hr
Robert Rodriguez “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
– Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
Like · 1 hr
Robert Rodriguez “To disarm the people…[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them.”
– George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788
Like · 1 hr
Robert Rodriguez Foolish liberals who are trying to read the Second Amendment out of the Constitution by claiming it’s not an individual right or that it’s too much of a public safety hazard, don’t see the danger in the big picture. They’re courting disaster by encouraging others to use the same means to eliminate portions of the Constitution theydon’t like.
Alan M. Dershowitz
Like · 1 hr
qkslvrwolf How hard is it to actually address, directly, anything I’ve said? Since Friend declined to, how about you actually join me in the intellectual exercise of actually making a hypthesis and testing it, instead of mindlessly repeating the platitudes fed t…See More
Like · 1 hr
qkslvrwolf You haven’t rebutted anything. You apparently don’t even know what rebut means. If you want to “rebut” something, you have to say “this statement, ‘thing that you said’, is wrong because x. You didn’t. You just said, “here, her’s a thing I read that the nra sent me. I win! Nyah nyah nyah!” It’s like you’re six.
Like · 57 mins
qkslvrwolf Except I doubt you read that well.
Like · 57 mins
qkslvrwolf We’re not talking about GUN CONTROL, you dumbass. We’re talking about the statement “the problems isn’t guns, it’s a godless society”. Christ on a cracker how hard is it to stay on topic?
Like · 56 mins
qkslvrwolf Oh, look, I found the web page you’re copying and pasting from. How original. Ignorant asshat. http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/gun-quotations-founding…
Gun Quotations of the Founding Fathers | Buckeye Firearms…
BUCKEYEFIREARMS.ORG
Like · Remove Preview · 50 mins
qkslvrwolf And you can’t even find people that know how to get their shit right in the first place. There must be some sort of natural law that gun nuts can’t understand context. It’s like not being able to fathom that an onion tastes different if it’s in a stew than it does if it you eat it raw.
Like · 47 mins
qkslvrwolf http://www.mixermuse.com/…/politics/guns-and-false-quotes/
Guns and False Quotes | Musings
Guns and False Quotes Leave a reply “False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils, except destruction. The laws…
MIXERMUSE.COM
Like · Remove Preview · 47 mins
Friend You changed the topic to gun control hours ago Sean. And I was busy at work earlier but don’t want to get involved now because it’s a) far beyond MY expertise, and I can only offer my opinion. Which is thus: I do believe that some gun control is a good…See More
Like · 1 · 36 mins
Friend Not guns. It was kinda ironic/surprising to think of it that way. At least for me. But I do believe in the right to bear arms. I think that if firearms were all in the hands of the militia, the criminals, and the military/police, in other words the government, there is more room for abuse of power, like in tyrannies.
Like · 1 · 32 mins · Edited
qkslvrwolf Please quote where you think *I* changed it to gun control. I’d like you to find what statement you think I made that was about gun control. I asked you to state a hypothesis.
Like · 32 mins
Robert Rodriguez I apologize qkslvrwolf. You reminded me of the Scripture that references to individuals like you.
Proverbs 26
Wise Sayings About Fools
26 Just as snow should not fall in summer, nor rain at harvest time, so people should not honor a fool.
2 Don’t worry when someone curses you for no reason. Nothing bad will happen. Such words are like birds that fly past and never stop.
3 You have to whip a horse, you have to put a bridle on a mule, and you have to beat a fool.
4-5 There is no good way to answer fools when they say something stupid. If you answer them, then you, too, will look like a fool. If you don’t answer them, they will think they are smart.
6 Never let a fool carry your message. If you do, it will be like cutting off your own feet. You are only asking for trouble.
7 A fool trying to say something wise is like a crippled person trying to walk.
8 Showing honor to a fool is as bad as tying a rock in a sling.
9 A fool trying to say something wise is like a drunk trying to pick a thorn out of his hand.
10 Hiring a fool or a stranger who is just passing by is dangerous—you don’t know who might get hurt.
11 Like a dog that returns to its vomit, a fool does the same foolish things again and again.
12 People who think they are wise when they are not are worse than fools.”
Like · 27 mins
Friend The funniest thing to me, about this entire argument, is how derailed and antagonistic it got. Funny-sad. I mean, why ask someone to “prove” they read something you posted? That is insulting. I don’t think anyone needs to dictate how someone else must respond back. This isn’t a formal debate. There are good points on both sides, but so much citation that I don’t know what’s being argued anymore.
Like · 25 mins
qkslvrwolf NO! That’s not true! You can do MUCH MORE than “offer your opinion! You can actual take a guess about what is happening in the real, and then you can go find out if it IS happening in the real world! I’m not opining on anything. I’m trying to get…See More
Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms: faster falls in firearm deaths,…
INJURYPREVENTION.BMJ.COM
Like · Remove Preview · 24 mins
Robert Rodriguez I shall refrain from arguing with a fool. I’d rather debate not argue. Clearly since you made it personal and choose to be immature “like the six year old” you mentioned. I’ll be the wise one and take the high road.
Like · 23 mins · Edited
qkslvrwolf “People are the danger, not the weapons used”. Again. Untested hypothesis. We can break that down and fact check it . If you would like to actually, y’know, reason about things rather than faith them.
Like · 23 mins
qkslvrwolf have you ever heard of world war 1? Just curious.
Like · 22 mins
qkslvrwolf Besides, again, context. Wars and despots really don’t have anything to do with murders at these scales. They’re two completely separate issues.
Like · 22 mins
qkslvrwolf Oh, yeah, i forgot to make the following prediction, thanks for reminding me. Here’s the 2 possible outcomes of this little facebook chat:
1) Robert flees like the intellectual coward he is from an opinion that makes him uncomfortable, because it doe…See More
Like · 17 mins
qkslvrwolf This is all the logical result of them not shutting off treason daily… I mean fox news on base. I KNEW I should’ve written congress instead of the base commander to get that shit shut off.
Like · 16 mins
qkslvrwolf I’d say you’re probably “braver” when you’re fondling your weapon, but it still wouldn’t be true; that’s physical “courage”, not moral or intellectual courage.
Like · 13 mins
qkslvrwolf Friend, re: “s how derailed and antagonistic it got.” That’s what happens when people don’t know how to have an intellectually honest conversation. If there are “good points” on “both sides”, then MAKE THEM. Just having an opinion does not make a “good point”. There are not “two sides” in this discussion. And yes, there are well known requirements for having an actual USEFUL conversation. Unfortunately, they are poorly known in non academic, non liberal-arts circles, because most people think two people screaming at each other on TV actually represents a debate. It doesn’t. if you want to have a productive conversation, there are a few good ways to do it. Pretty much everything else is worthless, other than to expose circle-jerking loudmouths (hint hint, robert!)
Like · 9 mins
qkslvrwolf The reason it’s happening so fast is because certain people aren’t actually reading and responding to the actual data. If they were, the cycle would be slower.
Like · 8 mins
qkslvrwolf Oh, wow, I’d also missed the Jesus’/barney happy hour quote. {rolls eys}. Coward.
Like · 8 mins
qkslvrwolf “Not guns. It was kinda ironic/surprising to think of it that way. At least for me. But I do believe in the right to bear arms. I think that if firearms were all in the hands of the militia, the criminals, and the military/police, in other words the government, there is more room for abuse of power, like in tyrannies” This leads to a few questions: 1) Do you still get paid by the government? Do you really think everyone you worked with is equitable with criminals and militia? That’s a) insulting to a lot of good people and b) sounds pretty seditious to me. 2) untested hypothesis 3) incorrect context. http://www.english.illinois.edu/…/debaron/essays/guns.pdf
Like · 4 mins
qkslvrwolf Hey, Robert, maybe if you tried reading more than one novel (and yes, I’m referring to the bible), you’d have a mind open enough to try and actually talk about things.
Friend Pretty sure this discussion is over. I’m disappointed by the insults and name calling 😐
Like · 1 hr

qksvlrwolf I”m disappointed by the utter lack of content and reason presented.
Like · 1 hr

Robert Rodriguez Hey qksvlrwolf. Learn this word. Humility. And this one. Respect. You are very poor in these areas. I’ll pray for you brother. Jesus loves you and so do I.
Like · 25 mins

qksvlrwolf Respect is earned, and humbleness is apparent to equals.

I dearly hope you have a chance to learn.
Like · 23 mins

qksvlrwolf Odin would play you, Loki would mock you. Zeus would sleep with your wife. Buddha would enlighten you. I have no clues about Mohammad.
Like · 21 mins

qksvlrwolf But the Flying Spaghetti Monster would touch you with his noodly appendage, and maybe help you learn reason.

Analysis via comment later.

Linkspam: trump

2015 August 15
by qkslvrwolf

“Never underestimate the power of inchoate rage, properly harnessed. Even if it’s by Mr. von Clownstick here.  How long he can ride this beast, well, who knows, but there’s going to be a lot of damage in its wake.”

Tales From Real Ameritrump
http://www.balloon-juice.com/2015/08/15/tales-from-real-ameritrump/

2014 November 13
by qkslvrwolf

When the FBI told MLK to kill himself (who are they targeting now?)
http://boingboing.net/2014/11/12/when-the-fbi-told-mlk-to-kill.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+boingboing%2FiBag+%28Boing+Boing%29

One last appeal to vote

2014 November 4
by qkslvrwolf

So, here’s the thing. I hear people say they’re not interested in voting for anyone that running, so why vote?

Because if you’re not voting, you’re never gonna get the candidates you want. This is the long game. A smart politician, the sort of person you’d actually want to be in office, isn’t going to come out appeal to you unless they KNOW you’re gonna vote. Why would they waste their time? If it’s so easy to convince you to stay home, and they can’t rely on you, they can’t waste their time. They’ve got tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands or millions of other people who WILL vote to cater to. Why should they listen to you because if they did listen, maybe, just maybe, you might vote?

Think about this way. Think about if you did have a candidate that you liked that pretty much said and did what you wanted them to say. This person holds office for a few election cycles, and you REALLY LIKE them, so you keep voting for them.

Then, they turn around, and start courting the vote of some group that wants different stuff than you, and that group never voted. They just said “well, if you do this for us, THEN we’ll vote for you”. How would you feel? Would you still vote for them? Or would you feel betrayed enough to go vote for someone else? Or even just stay home?

My point is: voting isn’t about this year or this election. It’s about building trust with the people who run your government. They can’t listen to you if you don’t vote, they can’t listen if they can’t trust you to vote, every time. So FIRST you vote, THEN you tell them you’re unhappy, THEN you vote in the primaries and get them out.

But just complaining that they don’t care about the things you care about when they can’t trust you to vote? That’s just dysfunctional.

Erggh

2014 October 30
by qkslvrwolf

Check out @sethmnookin’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/sethmnookin/status/527937119075831808?s=09

Ergh,  I already went home.